http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...or-black-women/
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
QUOTE (yahwehslady @ Mar 13 2010, 06:53 PM) 
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...or-black-women/
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
I am thinking this is an old story merely paraphrased from all fhe others with statistics that I would think, as others said, would be hard to believe based on race without knowing what else there was involved. My experience is that most BW or for that matter any women, on a site like that usually post a profile. Most women will tell you who they want to date and who they prefer. The smart guy who is a looking for a prospective date will read her profile first. Why would I want to try to argue with someone over a date when their profile states, "I am : SBF seeking SBM who is Christian, A Professional, College Educated with at least a PHD, who is also a Non Smoker, Non Drinker and Loves to travel and would love to have me join him." ? They set this up with that killer attitude. No one wants to head into a debate when someone has their mind made up about sexual preference or racial preferrence. Most of the BW I remember reading the profile of, were looking for a well educated, well paid, world traveler who lived within a few miles of her, of her own race (especially if I am none or only one of the above). So why would I shoot her an email to ask what is up? I finally did find one lady on a site that had said she preferred BM if she would experiment a little. She replied that she didn't really care that much but when she filled out the questionaire that was the way the answer option closest to what she wanted was worded. This guy, in my opinion is doing a survey and giving us the statistics that the site was "rigged" in order to produce.
These statistics are repeated over and over again, it is the same rubbish, it is hard for a black woman, blah blah, yada, yah! There are many black women who are married to black men, white or Asian. There are successful. Men like John Mayer are disguisting and I'm putting this mildly. I think what the problem is that quietly black women are marrying nice men of whatever race and they are getting on with their lives. People are getting worried.
That article is bs...Here's a brilliant critique of this article. http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive...distress/37085/
<H1 class=blogEntryTitle>The Black Damsel In Dating Distress</H1>Mar 5 2010, 7:38 AM ET
There are worlds, and there are worlds--Cornelius Eady
There's been a lot of talk over the past few months over the dating prospects for black women. Besides the occasional dip, I've tried to stay clear as I think this is the kind of conversation where there's a lot of condemnation and very little exploration. One instance of claimed exploration is this study done back in October by the dating site OKCupid in which they mined their data to see how race and gender affected your chances at the site.
There's a lot of data and conclusions up there, but for our purposes, I want to focus on the conclusions about black women:
At the Times' Freakonomics blog, Ian Ayres looked at the data and offered his observations:
Ayres finds this depressing, and laments that black women have "an uphill battle." TIME uses the study, and others of online dating sites, and concludes that black women "will be disproportionately snubbed by men of all races."
Look, I deeply suspect that, on a national level, there are an unfortunate number of people who think black women are less attractive then women of other races. The remnants of white supremacy are not just economic, they are cultural. I also think that's less true today then it was twenty years ago.
But that said, I think that people passing this data around need to be really careful about using this study to draw inferences about the dating world of black women. One significant problem is that, as any black person will tell you, when black folks date online they don't go to OKcupid. They go to blacksingles. They go to soulsingles. Or if they're truly high post, they go to EliteNoire. (Dig the sensuous piano riffs and candelabra.)
Black people who are going to a site like OKcupid are generally black people who, with some exceptions, are open to interracial dating. But the same isn't true of white people on OKcupid.So the game is rigged--on OKcupid you have many white men who have no interest in dating black women, but very few black men with no interest in dating white women.
That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. OKCupid is the Caucasian Dating Network. (Note that there is Jdate, though.)
This has other implications for white people. OKCupid reports a relatively high rate of white people who don't want to date interracially. It looks shocking when you compare it to black people on the site. But it's also an unfair comparison because, again, most of the black people opposed to interracial dating aren't on OKCupid.
I don't write this to be dismissive of the struggles black women face on the dating scene, or all women, for that matter. But these tales of black female woe are becoming grating, not because black women don't have their share of struggle, but because of the lack of agency runs that through them all, this sense that black women, are there to be acted upon, to wait by the phone. There's almost an objectifying quality to the whole discussion. We've been here before. And, evidently, we've learned nothing.
<H1 class=blogEntryTitle>The Black Damsel In Dating Distress</H1>Mar 5 2010, 7:38 AM ET
There are worlds, and there are worlds--Cornelius Eady
There's been a lot of talk over the past few months over the dating prospects for black women. Besides the occasional dip, I've tried to stay clear as I think this is the kind of conversation where there's a lot of condemnation and very little exploration. One instance of claimed exploration is this study done back in October by the dating site OKCupid in which they mined their data to see how race and gender affected your chances at the site.
There's a lot of data and conclusions up there, but for our purposes, I want to focus on the conclusions about black women:
Black women write back the most. Whether it's due to talkativeness, loneliness, or a sense of plain decency, black women are by far the most likely to respond to a first contact attempt. In many cases, their response rate is one and a half times the average, and, overall, black women reply about a quarter more often that other women.
Men don't write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race--including other blacks--singles them out for the cold shoulder.
At the Times' Freakonomics blog, Ian Ayres looked at the data and offered his observations:
Men (including African-American men) write back to African-American women at about a 20% lower rate. This result is somewhat reminiscent of the famous resume study done by Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan, which found that employers who place want ads were less likely to respond to resumes from people with African-American sounding names.
But in some ways the OkCupid result is even more depressing than the racial disparities found in employment. It seems that OkCupid doesn't match couples where the match would be inconsistent with an explicit racial preference of a user. So these racial disparities persist even after excluding users who have stated an explicit racial preference...
Ayres finds this depressing, and laments that black women have "an uphill battle." TIME uses the study, and others of online dating sites, and concludes that black women "will be disproportionately snubbed by men of all races."
Look, I deeply suspect that, on a national level, there are an unfortunate number of people who think black women are less attractive then women of other races. The remnants of white supremacy are not just economic, they are cultural. I also think that's less true today then it was twenty years ago.
But that said, I think that people passing this data around need to be really careful about using this study to draw inferences about the dating world of black women. One significant problem is that, as any black person will tell you, when black folks date online they don't go to OKcupid. They go to blacksingles. They go to soulsingles. Or if they're truly high post, they go to EliteNoire. (Dig the sensuous piano riffs and candelabra.)
Black people who are going to a site like OKcupid are generally black people who, with some exceptions, are open to interracial dating. But the same isn't true of white people on OKcupid.So the game is rigged--on OKcupid you have many white men who have no interest in dating black women, but very few black men with no interest in dating white women.
That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. OKCupid is the Caucasian Dating Network. (Note that there is Jdate, though.)
This has other implications for white people. OKCupid reports a relatively high rate of white people who don't want to date interracially. It looks shocking when you compare it to black people on the site. But it's also an unfair comparison because, again, most of the black people opposed to interracial dating aren't on OKCupid.
I don't write this to be dismissive of the struggles black women face on the dating scene, or all women, for that matter. But these tales of black female woe are becoming grating, not because black women don't have their share of struggle, but because of the lack of agency runs that through them all, this sense that black women, are there to be acted upon, to wait by the phone. There's almost an objectifying quality to the whole discussion. We've been here before. And, evidently, we've learned nothing.
QUOTE (*Kim* @ Mar 15 2010, 04:07 PM)
That article is bs...Here's a brilliant critique of this article. http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive...distress/37085/
<H1 class=blogEntryTitle>The Black Damsel In Dating Distress</H1>Mar 5 2010, 7:38 AM ET
There are worlds, and there are worlds--Cornelius Eady
There's been a lot of talk over the past few months over the dating prospects for black women. Besides the occasional dip, I've tried to stay clear as I think this is the kind of conversation where there's a lot of condemnation and very little exploration. One instance of claimed exploration is this study done back in October by the dating site OKCupid in which they mined their data to see how race and gender affected your chances at the site.
There's a lot of data and conclusions up there, but for our purposes, I want to focus on the conclusions about black women:
At the Times' Freakonomics blog, Ian Ayres looked at the data and offered his observations:
Ayres finds this depressing, and laments that black women have "an uphill battle." TIME uses the study, and others of online dating sites, and concludes that black women "will be disproportionately snubbed by men of all races."
Look, I deeply suspect that, on a national level, there are an unfortunate number of people who think black women are less attractive then women of other races. The remnants of white supremacy are not just economic, they are cultural. I also think that's less true today then it was twenty years ago.
But that said, I think that people passing this data around need to be really careful about using this study to draw inferences about the dating world of black women. One significant problem is that, as any black person will tell you, when black folks date online they don't go to OKcupid. They go to blacksingles. They go to soulsingles. Or if they're truly high post, they go to EliteNoire. (Dig the sensuous piano riffs and candelabra.)
Black people who are going to a site like OKcupid are generally black people who, with some exceptions, are open to interracial dating. But the same isn't true of white people on OKcupid.So the game is rigged--on OKcupid you have many white men who have no interest in dating black women, but very few black men with no interest in dating white women.
That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. OKCupid is the Caucasian Dating Network. (Note that there is Jdate, though.)
This has other implications for white people. OKCupid reports a relatively high rate of white people who don't want to date interracially. It looks shocking when you compare it to black people on the site. But it's also an unfair comparison because, again, most of the black people opposed to interracial dating aren't on OKCupid.
I don't write this to be dismissive of the struggles black women face on the dating scene, or all women, for that matter. But these tales of black female woe are becoming grating, not because black women don't have their share of struggle, but because of the lack of agency runs that through them all, this sense that black women, are there to be acted upon, to wait by the phone. There's almost an objectifying quality to the whole discussion. We've been here before. And, evidently, we've learned nothing.
<H1 class=blogEntryTitle>The Black Damsel In Dating Distress</H1>Mar 5 2010, 7:38 AM ET
There are worlds, and there are worlds--Cornelius Eady
There's been a lot of talk over the past few months over the dating prospects for black women. Besides the occasional dip, I've tried to stay clear as I think this is the kind of conversation where there's a lot of condemnation and very little exploration. One instance of claimed exploration is this study done back in October by the dating site OKCupid in which they mined their data to see how race and gender affected your chances at the site.
There's a lot of data and conclusions up there, but for our purposes, I want to focus on the conclusions about black women:
Black women write back the most. Whether it's due to talkativeness, loneliness, or a sense of plain decency, black women are by far the most likely to respond to a first contact attempt. In many cases, their response rate is one and a half times the average, and, overall, black women reply about a quarter more often that other women.
Men don't write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race--including other blacks--singles them out for the cold shoulder.
At the Times' Freakonomics blog, Ian Ayres looked at the data and offered his observations:
Men (including African-American men) write back to African-American women at about a 20% lower rate. This result is somewhat reminiscent of the famous resume study done by Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan, which found that employers who place want ads were less likely to respond to resumes from people with African-American sounding names.
But in some ways the OkCupid result is even more depressing than the racial disparities found in employment. It seems that OkCupid doesn't match couples where the match would be inconsistent with an explicit racial preference of a user. So these racial disparities persist even after excluding users who have stated an explicit racial preference...
Ayres finds this depressing, and laments that black women have "an uphill battle." TIME uses the study, and others of online dating sites, and concludes that black women "will be disproportionately snubbed by men of all races."
Look, I deeply suspect that, on a national level, there are an unfortunate number of people who think black women are less attractive then women of other races. The remnants of white supremacy are not just economic, they are cultural. I also think that's less true today then it was twenty years ago.
But that said, I think that people passing this data around need to be really careful about using this study to draw inferences about the dating world of black women. One significant problem is that, as any black person will tell you, when black folks date online they don't go to OKcupid. They go to blacksingles. They go to soulsingles. Or if they're truly high post, they go to EliteNoire. (Dig the sensuous piano riffs and candelabra.)
Black people who are going to a site like OKcupid are generally black people who, with some exceptions, are open to interracial dating. But the same isn't true of white people on OKcupid.So the game is rigged--on OKcupid you have many white men who have no interest in dating black women, but very few black men with no interest in dating white women.
That's because all the black men who don't want to date white women are on the African American Dating Network or Blacksinglesconnection. There simply is no real white corollary. Stormfront excluded, there aren't many "WhiteSingles" websites or "EliteIvory" dating sites. There is no Caucasian Dating Network, because the broader world is the Caucasian Dating Network. OKCupid is the Caucasian Dating Network. (Note that there is Jdate, though.)
This has other implications for white people. OKCupid reports a relatively high rate of white people who don't want to date interracially. It looks shocking when you compare it to black people on the site. But it's also an unfair comparison because, again, most of the black people opposed to interracial dating aren't on OKCupid.
I don't write this to be dismissive of the struggles black women face on the dating scene, or all women, for that matter. But these tales of black female woe are becoming grating, not because black women don't have their share of struggle, but because of the lack of agency runs that through them all, this sense that black women, are there to be acted upon, to wait by the phone. There's almost an objectifying quality to the whole discussion. We've been here before. And, evidently, we've learned nothing.
I agree 100% with your well-reasoned reply. As a veteran of the online dating scene, it's important to choose a site that meets your dating interests. Personally, I had no interest in joinig OKCupid/EHarmony et al. I found greater success with sites geared toward IR dating.
Also lets not dismiss the power of the media to subtly and overtly influence then it is possible that the 'lie will become the truth'.
MystereDancer
QUOTE (MystereDancer @ Mar 15 2010, 06:41 PM)
I agree 100% with your well-reasoned reply. As a veteran of the online dating scene, it's important to choose a site that meets your dating interests. Personally, I had no interest in joinig OKCupid/EHarmony et al. I found greater success with sites geared toward IR dating.
Also lets not dismiss the power of the media to subtly and overtly influence then it is possible that the 'lie will become the truth'.
MystereDancer
Also lets not dismiss the power of the media to subtly and overtly influence then it is possible that the 'lie will become the truth'.
MystereDancer
I second that!!! Thanks for the rebuttal.
QUOTE (yahwehslady @ Mar 13 2010, 05:53 PM)
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...or-black-women/
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
When I see all the dismal statistics when it comes to black dating/marrying it bothers me. I'm 31 and have been single for 6 years. At the same time all but one of my best friends (who are all black women) are in relationships. One is newly engaged (she met her fiance on afroromance.com) and my best friend has been married for 7 years. Most of my female cousins are also in relationships/engaged/married. I've been trying to ignore all the "no one wants black women" scare tactics and look at people i know in real life. I get hit on all the time by men of all races but I'm still scared though. Getting hit on is one thing but I want someone to actually ask me out and be willing to date me. I had my first date in 4 years this year but he disappeared after 2 dates. Bummer.
I'm on okcupid and don't get a ton of guys messaging me. That might be because of the area i live in and because i'm rarely ever on there. My friend lives in a big metropolitan city and she never really got any attention from the men on there either. I think that the reason there are so many white people on there who don't want to date interracially is because the site seems to geared toward those in the hipster scene. Those folks are all about being so "liberal", unique and over the top but are sometimes very VERY racist. I should know because I've hung out in that scene for the music. If you don't look like a tattooed snow white or uberhott asian pixie the guys will not give you the time of day. The women were also against dating anything but skinny white dudes and possibly an asian or light skinned latino if they were "cool' enough. People also think it's cute to have a token black friend as an accessory.
QUOTE (afrodite @ May 18 2010, 04:49 PM)
QUOTE (yahwehslady @ Mar 13 2010, 05:53 PM)
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...or-black-women/
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
When I see all the dismal statistics when it comes to black dating/marrying it bothers me. I'm 31 and have been single for 6 years. At the same time all but one of my best friends (who are all black women) are in relationships. One is newly engaged (she met her fiance on afroromance.com) and my best friend has been married for 7 years. Most of my female cousins are also in relationships/engaged/married. I've been trying to ignore all the "no one wants black women" scare tactics and look at people i know in real life. I get hit on all the time by men of all races but I'm still scared though. Getting hit on is one thing but I want someone to actually ask me out and be willing to date me. I had my first date in 4 years this year but he disappeared after 2 dates. Bummer.
I'm on okcupid and don't get a ton of guys messaging me. That might be because of the area i live in and because i'm rarely ever on there. My friend lives in a big metropolitan city and she never really got any attention from the men on there either. I think that the reason there are so many white people on there who don't want to date interracially is because the site seems to geared toward those in the hipster scene. Those folks are all about being so "liberal", unique and over the top but are sometimes very VERY racist. I should know because I've hung out in that scene for the music. If you don't look like a tattooed snow white or uberhott asian pixie the guys will not give you the time of day. The women were also against dating anything but skinny white dudes and possibly an asian or light skinned latino if they were "cool' enough. People also think it's cute to have a token black friend as an accessory.
I'd say get off of these sites that not geared toward your interests because it can be psychologically defeating. It would make no sense to remain and be ignored. It seems that a majority of your friends and family in real life have found success in relationships. I think it's important to focus on successes one sees in reality than perceived failures reported by the media.
MystereDancer
QUOTE (MystereDancer @ May 19 2010, 11:57 AM)
QUOTE (afrodite @ May 18 2010, 04:49 PM)
QUOTE (yahwehslady @ Mar 13 2010, 05:53 PM)
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010...or-black-women/
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
I ran across this article at work and was wondering what others were thinking. I always heard this was an issue but never actually seen a article with stats to prove there is a problem. I thought it was a bit interesting that they never brought up the "uneven playing field for asian men" too.
When I see all the dismal statistics when it comes to black dating/marrying it bothers me. I'm 31 and have been single for 6 years. At the same time all but one of my best friends (who are all black women) are in relationships. One is newly engaged (she met her fiance on afroromance.com) and my best friend has been married for 7 years. Most of my female cousins are also in relationships/engaged/married. I've been trying to ignore all the "no one wants black women" scare tactics and look at people i know in real life. I get hit on all the time by men of all races but I'm still scared though. Getting hit on is one thing but I want someone to actually ask me out and be willing to date me. I had my first date in 4 years this year but he disappeared after 2 dates. Bummer.
I'm on okcupid and don't get a ton of guys messaging me. That might be because of the area i live in and because i'm rarely ever on there. My friend lives in a big metropolitan city and she never really got any attention from the men on there either. I think that the reason there are so many white people on there who don't want to date interracially is because the site seems to geared toward those in the hipster scene. Those folks are all about being so "liberal", unique and over the top but are sometimes very VERY racist. I should know because I've hung out in that scene for the music. If you don't look like a tattooed snow white or uberhott asian pixie the guys will not give you the time of day. The women were also against dating anything but skinny white dudes and possibly an asian or light skinned latino if they were "cool' enough. People also think it's cute to have a token black friend as an accessory.
I'd say get off of these sites that not geared toward your interests because it can be psychologically defeating. It would make no sense to remain and be ignored. It seems that a majority of your friends and family in real life have found success in relationships. I think it's important to focus on successes one sees in reality than perceived failures reported by the media.
MystereDancer
Yeah i just tried it because my friend was on there. I'm going to keep my profile up and try to maybe still try to meet some new friends on there. She said she met some cool girls to be friends with on there.
I'm going to try afroromance where my other friend met her fiance.
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